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Post by linewalker44 on Aug 8, 2013 19:50:45 GMT -5
I would love to see 40 cars there. I just may need to bring two.
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Post by catscratch on Aug 8, 2013 20:44:34 GMT -5
My comment on the "unlimited" wire was just a thought to help keep it cheap. Honestly I'm fine with the rules as they are and will try to bring a better car next yr. My aluminum front bumper fared much better than the frame at the firewall and Gary's tin bumper's showed that you don't have to have a great bumper to have some fun.
Great video, thanks for posting! It was put together well. I had a camera in the car (pointed at me) and my wife took some video from the grandstands. I'm going to try to split screen them and time them together to make a video. When I get done I can post the youtube address if anyone is interested (it's probably going to take me a while to do it though).
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Post by roadhog304 on Aug 8, 2013 21:02:47 GMT -5
IN MY MIND LEAVE THE RULES AS THEY ARE. A 1968 DELTA 88 WITH TINFOIL STOCK BUMPERS GOT THIRD PLACE. THATS ENOUGH FOR ME TO KNOW THAT PRE-74 GM CARS WILL WITHSTAND THE ONSLAUGHT. WHICH IN TURN MEANS THAT MOPAR Y-FRAMERS COULD BE BUILT JUST FINE WITH STOCK BUMPERS..... ILL BET THAT 40 CARS DO SHOW NEXT YEAR. THIS SHOW HAS PROVEN THAT IT DOES WHAT IT PROMISES....... Jon I am going to respectfully disagree with you on the bumper swap. Yes, a 1968 delta 88 came in third but... if a different bumper could be added to these cars it would make them better and more able to compete with a 74-76 gm or shocker mopar. It is easy for someone to say no do not change out bumpers on these cars when that person has a whole pasture full of cars with good bumpers. You have a head on shot between a shocker or 74-76 gm against a tinfoil bumper car and we all know who is going to have the water pump run through the radiator. How is that fair to the guy who is running the tinfoil bumper car? I just think a bumper swap would level the playing field some but even after a swap the 74-76 gm or shocker is going to have the advantage over a y framer or older gm car.
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Post by dodgedemom4a1 on Aug 8, 2013 22:32:08 GMT -5
According to how Brandon put it to me the other night, bumpers are to be the make and model of the carbut the year can be different so if Gary ran a 68 olds delta 88 he could in fact have a 74 olds delta 88 bumper on the front and rear. The year does not mater as long as the make and model are the same. Correct Brandon? I told him I was going to bring an 83 caprice( which is for sale now) which had aluminum bumpers and he told me I could put on a 74-76 caprice bumper. I could have misheard but I had him repeat it several times. If not find better cars to run. I'm going after something goofy and blizzare next year.
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Post by crusher71 on Aug 8, 2013 22:55:34 GMT -5
THE RULE IS " IF YOUR CAR HAS AN ALUMINUM BUMPER YOU CAN SWAP IT TO A STEEL VERSION FROM THE SAME MODEL" SO, SINCE THE 68 OLDS ALREADY CAME WITH A STEEL BUMPER IT WOULD HAVE TO REMAIN THE STOCK ONE THAT CAME ON THE CAR WHEN NEW. THE 77 AND NEWER METRIC STYLES THAT CAME WITH AN ALUMINUM BUMPER WOULD INDEED BE ALLOWED TO SWAP THEIR BUMPERS FOR STEEL VERSIONS OF THE BUMPERS THAT CAME ON THE SAME MODEL. THATS WHERE IT GETS WEIRD..KIND OF... SAY YOU HAVE A 1980 CAPRICE WITH AN ALUMINUM BUMPER, YOU WOULD BE ALLOWED TO THEN SWAP TO EITHER A 74 OR 76 STYLE OLD IRON CHEVY BUMPER AND IT WOULD BE LEGAL. YOU OF COURSE WOULD HAVE TO ALTER THE MOUNTING HOLE LOCATION IN THE BACKING PLATE ALL THE WHILE STILL USING THE 1980 STYLE BUMPER SHOCKS. I DONT SEE HOW HAVING A HARD ASS FRONT BUMPER ON A METRIC CAR WOULD HELP BUT IM SURE SOMEONE WOULD DO IT IF ITS ALLOWED..DEFINITELY NOT ADVISABLE IN MY BOOK. ON A MOPAR, SWAPPING FROM A TINFOIL FRONT BUMPER ON SAY FOR INSTANCE A 68 NEW YORKER WOULD REQUIRE SOME FRAME MODIFICATIONS TO UTILIZE THE LATER SYLE FRONT BUMPER SHOCK AND COULD GET CARRIED AWAY. A 1980 NEWPORT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO RUN A FLAT NEWPORT BUMPER FROM EARLIER YEARS.. FORDS WOULD BE THE SAME THING, A 1970 GALAXIE WITH A LATER BEAM BUMPER WOULD NEED A BUNCH OF MODS TO MOUNT A DIFFERENT BUMPER. SOME PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SEARCH OUT THE CAR THAT THEY FEEL WILL HAVE THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN, WHILE OTHERS JUST WANT TO WRECK STUFF WITHOUT SPENDING A GRAND ON A SHELL AND 3 MONTHS WORK.....MY CONCERN IS THAT THE ENGINE RULE SHOULD BE STOCK. NO AFTERMARKET INTAKES OR CARBS. THAT WILL SAVE GUYS MONEY... I KNOW THAT WHEN I PICKED MY ENGINE FOR MY CAR I RAN, I JUST WANTED SOMETHING THAT I FELT WOULD BE RELIABLE, NO BIG HORSEPOWER WOULD BE NEEDED BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WOULD HAVE THAT EITHER. I KIND OF THINK THINGS ARE ALREADY GOOD.......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 23:28:21 GMT -5
THE RULE IS " IF YOUR CAR HAS AN ALUMINUM BUMPER YOU CAN SWAP IT TO A STEEL VERSION FROM THE SAME MODEL" SO, SINCE THE 68 OLDS ALREADY CAME WITH A STEEL BUMPER IT WOULD HAVE TO REMAIN THE STOCK ONE THAT CAME ON THE CAR WHEN NEW. THE 77 AND NEWER METRIC STYLES THAT CAME WITH AN ALUMINUM BUMPER WOULD INDEED BE ALLOWED TO SWAP THEIR BUMPERS FOR STEEL VERSIONS OF THE BUMPERS THAT CAME ON THE SAME MODEL. THATS WHERE IT GETS WEIRD..KIND OF... SAY YOU HAVE A 1980 CAPRICE WITH AN ALUMINUM BUMPER, YOU WOULD BE ALLOWED TO THEN SWAP TO EITHER A 74 OR 76 STYLE OLD IRON CHEVY BUMPER AND IT WOULD BE LEGAL. YOU OF COURSE WOULD HAVE TO ALTER THE MOUNTING HOLE LOCATION IN THE BACKING PLATE ALL THE WHILE STILL USING THE 1980 STYLE BUMPER SHOCKS. I DONT SEE HOW HAVING A HARD ASS FRONT BUMPER ON A METRIC CAR WOULD HELP BUT IM SURE SOMEONE WOULD DO IT IF ITS ALLOWED..DEFINITELY NOT ADVISABLE IN MY BOOK. ON A MOPAR, SWAPPING FROM A TINFOIL FRONT BUMPER ON SAY FOR INSTANCE A 68 NEW YORKER WOULD REQUIRE SOME FRAME MODIFICATIONS TO UTILIZE THE LATER SYLE FRONT BUMPER SHOCK AND COULD GET CARRIED AWAY. A 1980 NEWPORT WOULD BE ALLOWED TO RUN A FLAT NEWPORT BUMPER FROM EARLIER YEARS.. FORDS WOULD BE THE SAME THING, A 1970 GALAXIE WITH A LATER BEAM BUMPER WOULD NEED A BUNCH OF MODS TO MOUNT A DIFFERENT BUMPER. SOME PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS SEARCH OUT THE CAR THAT THEY FEEL WILL HAVE THE BEST CHANCE TO WIN, WHILE OTHERS JUST WANT TO WRECK STUFF WITHOUT SPENDING A GRAND ON A SHELL AND 3 MONTHS WORK.....MY CONCERN IS THAT THE ENGINE RULE SHOULD BE STOCK. NO AFTERMARKET INTAKES OR CARBS. THAT WILL SAVE GUYS MONEY... I KNOW THAT WHEN I PICKED MY ENGINE FOR MY CAR I RAN, I JUST WANTED SOMETHING THAT I FELT WOULD BE RELIABLE, NO BIG HORSEPOWER WOULD BE NEEDED BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE WOULD HAVE THAT EITHER. I KIND OF THINK THINGS ARE ALREADY GOOD....... I am kinda agreeing with you but kinda not I agree on the bumper rule, because if they picked that car they thought it would be a good choice, my deal is a motor I really think u should be able to run a 350 Chevy(gm) in a Buick, olds or poniac, same with all fords and chrystler just keep it in that area of the make of car, u don't have to weld mounts in they made a drill and bolts for a reason its no different then the motor rule now the rule states the mounts must remain stock but said nothing about relocating them so u could move your motor back or forwords and rebolt them in as long as it remaind the stock mount, so what if some one took a better Chevy mount and used it in there Chevy car and rebolted it in, it would be no different.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2013 23:34:54 GMT -5
Sry I didn't really finish on what I was saying on the bumper rule I know I'm blah blahing along, but just because that bumper is weak they are able to replace it that's kinda not fair because the outer skin of that aluminium bumper is steal.
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Post by hitmhard on Aug 9, 2013 1:04:36 GMT -5
I did not build a car or compete, so maybe my 2 cents are worthless, but I like the rules how they stand.. Can't we all agree that derbies have gotten way out of hand? Now listen to what ya'll are saying.. Kevin, I would LOVE to put my 350 in a Buick instead of running a hot-ass 455.. And Aaron, if we are allowed tin foil bumper swaps, you can bet your ass I'll be there in a '73 Chevy wagon with a '74 front bumper next year.. Weren't engine, bumper, front clip, and rear-end swaps where it all started getting out of hand in the first place?? "Hypothetically" speaking, I have a 2 door '74 Olds 98 and a '76 2 door Olds 98 sitting side by side.. They both have 455's, are running cars, and I need to figure out which one to build.. The '74 Olds has a tow package and 12 bolt BIA's but has a crap front bumper.. The '76 Olds has a nice hard front bumper but no tow package and crap C-clip axles... Normally, you would take the good '76 front bumper, put it on your '74 T/P 12BIA car, transplant an SBC and you have the best of all worlds.. But this is the beauty of the stock class.. Every car has its strengths and weaknesses from the factory... Leaving it that way is what keeps it cheaper with a more level playing field... IMO... Thanks for listening...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2013 9:14:26 GMT -5
I did not build a car or compete, so maybe my 2 cents are worthless, but I like the rules how they stand.. Can't we all agree that derbies have gotten way out of hand? Now listen to what ya'll are saying.. Kevin, I would LOVE to put my 350 in a Buick instead of running a hot-ass 455.. And Aaron, if we are allowed tin foil bumper swaps, you can bet your ass I'll be there in a '73 Chevy wagon with a '74 front bumper next year.. Weren't engine, bumper, front clip, and rear-end swaps where it all started getting out of hand in the first place?? "Hypothetically" speaking, I have a 2 door '74 Olds 98 and a '76 2 door Olds 98 sitting side by side.. They both have 455's, are running cars, and I need to figure out which one to build.. The '74 Olds has a tow package and 12 bolt BIA's but has a crap front bumper.. The '76 Olds has a nice hard front bumper but no tow package and crap C-clip axles... Normally, you would take the good '76 front bumper, put it on your '74 T/P 12BIA car, transplant an SBC and you have the best of all worlds.. But this is the beauty of the stock class.. Every car has its strengths and weaknesses from the factory... Leaving it that way is what keeps it cheaper with a more level playing field... IMO... Thanks for listening... ok so if they leave the motor rule, what about the bumper rule, I think if it came with the bumper it should stay with that bumper then no swaps. Because if the car has a aluminium bumper who cares pick another car, right, because if I have to search around for a good car because of a motor, because everything must be stock well aluminium bumpers came with a steal outer skin, and if I do remember, Jason had one on his car, and tell me how many runs did that car have on it, I'm just saying if there they decided to start changing rules around on bumpers and motors they have to look outside of the box, if they allow people to change bumpers because there weak then everyone gets to change them if they are allowing people to swap motors then everyone is able to do it, in my eyes the rules give the metric gms a lasting point against us old iron guys
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Post by crusher71 on Aug 9, 2013 9:57:33 GMT -5
CHEVY ONLY HAS 3 GOOD YEARS OF CARS WITH HARD BUMPERS, 74-75-76 WHILE MOPAR HAS 5 YEARS- 1974-75-76-77 AND 78. MAYBE I SHOULD SWAP OVER TO MOTHER MOPAR FOR A BETTER AVAILABILITY? I DO LIKE A 74 OLDS FRONT BUMPER, JUST LIKE A 73 RAILROAD TRACK BUMPER ONCE YOU CUT THE CRAP OUT FROM UNDER THE BOTTOM...ALL CARS HAVE GOOD AND BAD POINTS, RUN THEM ALL AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS, JUST LIKE WE ALL USED TO DO BEFORE WE GOT BRAINWASHED THAT WE "HAD TO" HAVE A CERTAIN THIS OR THAT TO WIN.......
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Post by catscratch on Aug 9, 2013 11:53:46 GMT -5
That bumper has 4 heats on it and it is aluminum backed. When I built this car last yr I had a tough time NOT changing the rag joint, not taping u-joints, not welding doors, not changing the bumper and mounts, and not doing all the other stuff that I've been doing to cars for the last 20 yrs. I had real issues with it, it kept me up at night because I couldn't do what I thought I needed to do. Finally I said the hell with it, you've built the car as well as rules allow... be happy with the car/demo you've picked and go have some fun.
I guess at a point you have to say it is what it is. If I don't have a car that I'm comfortable running with Winfield's rules then I won't run Winfield. Otherwise I will get a car and run it with no remorse.
And with all this crap you see on wecrash about how stock demo's are a waste of a good car and that you should be able to weld them up to get multiple runs out of them; I think almost every car out there this yr is still runnable. Maybe stock isn't such a waste.
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Post by hitmhard on Aug 9, 2013 12:26:51 GMT -5
And with all this crap you see on wecrash about how stock demo's are a waste of a good car and that you should be able to weld them up to get multiple runs out of them; I think almost every car out there this yr is still runnable. Maybe stock isn't such a waste. Especially when a stock class pays 1500 to win... I can spend all winter welding on my car to run in a number of different derbies around here to win 1000, and still come home with junk at the end of the night... I used to think wire class was a waste, but my thoughts have changed... Kevin and Aaron, I didn't mean to single you two out.. I was just trying to use your cases as examples for my point.. But,I think to answer your question Kevin, I'm not for bumper swaps OR motor swaps.. I've seen a number of aluminum backed bumpers work just fine... Were they wadded up messes at the end of the night? Of course, but they were still in the general area they needed to be to do their job.... As for tin bumper skins, I've ran them too (back before I knew you weren't supposed to). No, I didn't have a radiator after it was said and done, but they always served me well enough to get into the money..
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Post by dodgedemom4a1 on Aug 9, 2013 13:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by hitmhard on Aug 9, 2013 14:00:58 GMT -5
I bet that guy couldn't even walk when he got out of his car...........................because of the huge pair he has......
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Post by roadhog304 on Aug 9, 2013 14:56:57 GMT -5
I guess my interpretation of "stock" might be different than others. To me allowing bumper swaps and engine swaps should be allowed in a "stock" derby as long as that particular part is unmodified. It would be different if you wanted to use a welded and loaded bumper and a 500 horse small block. Now that is not Stock. It took me a long time for me to adjust to the idea of not welding a car. I am okay with it now. I see the need in getting back to the good old days of the sport. Like Jason mentioned about wecrash, I used to have the same attitude- a stock derby is a waste of a car- but my views have changed. My car I ran this year will be back next year.
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